By PAMELA HESS, Associated Press Writer
December 11, 2007
WASHINGTON - The CIA's waterboarding of a top al-Qaida figure
was approved at the top levels of the U.S. government, a former
CIA agent said Tuesday as agency director Gen. Michael Hayden
prepared for questioning by congressional panels about the
destruction of videotapes of terror suspect interrogations.
According to the former agent, waterboarding of Abu Zubaydah
got him to talk in less than 35 seconds. The technique, which
critics say is torture, probably disrupted "dozens" of
planned al-Qaida attacks, said John Kiriakou, a leader of the
team that captured Zubaydah, a major al-Qaida figure.
Kiriakou did not explain how he knew who approved the interrogation
technique but said such approval comes from top officials.
"This isn't something done willy nilly. This isn't something
where an agency officer just wakes up in the morning and decides
he's going to carry out an enhanced technique on a prisoner," he
said Tuesday on NBC's "Today" show. "This was
a policy made at the White House, with concurrence from the
National Security Council and Justice Department."
Each time CIA agents wished to use waterboarding or any other
harsh interrogation technique, they had to present a "well-laid
out, well-thought out reason" to top government officials,
Kiriakou said. In Zubaydah's case, Kiriakou said the waterboarding
had immediate effect.
"The next day, he told his interrogator that Allah had
visited him in his cell during the night and told him to cooperate," Kiriakou
said in an interview first broadcast Monday evening on ABC
News' World News. "From that day on, he answered every
question. The threat information he provided disrupted a number
of attacks, maybe dozens of attacks."
Details of Zubaydah's interrogation came as Hayden prepared
for two days of questioning by the Senate and House intelligence
panels about the CIA's destruction of the videotapes. Both
are closed sessions.
Kiriakou said he did not know the interrogation of Zubaydah
was being recorded by the CIA and did not know the tapes subsequently
were destroyed.
"Like a lot of Americans, I'm involved in this internal,
intellectual battle with myself weighing the idea that waterboarding
may be torture versus the quality of information that we often
get after using the waterboarding technique," Kiriakou,
now retired from the CIA, told ABC News. "And I struggle
with it."
He added: "What happens if we don't waterboard a person
and we don't get that nugget of information and there's an
attack. I would have trouble forgiving myself. ... At the time,
I felt that waterboarding was something that we needed to do."
Waterboarding is a harsh interrogation technique that involves
strapping down a prisoner, covering his mouth with plastic
or cloth and pouring water over his face. The prisoner quickly
begins to inhale water, causing the sensation of drowning.
Hayden told CIA employees last week that the CIA taped the
interrogations of two alleged terrorists in 2002. He said the
harsh questioning was carried out only after being "reviewed
and approved by the Department of Justice and by other elements
of the Executive Branch." Hayden said Congress was notified
in 2003 both of the tapes' existence and the agency's intent
to destroy them.
The White House refuses to talk about specific types of interrogation
techniques but insists that the United States does not torture.
The CIA destroyed the tapes in November of 2005. Exactly when
Congress was notified and in what detail is in dispute.
Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va.,
said the CIA claims it told the committee of the tapes' destruction
at a hearing in November 2006. Rockefeller said, however, that
the hearing transcript found no mention of that subject.
The House committee first learned the tapes had been destroyed
in March 2007, according to Committee Chairman Rep. Silvestre
Reyes, D-Texas.
In last week's message, Hayden told CIA employees that "the
leaders of our oversight committees in Congress were informed
of the videos years ago and of the Agency's intention to dispose
of the material. Our oversight committees also have been told
that the videos were, in fact, destroyed."
But Reyes said Monday that Hayden's claim that Congress was
properly notified "does not appear to be true."
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